Darryl

Hi all, Apologies for the delay in providing an update. I only had a very short amount of time on Sunday to have another look at the Weasel. I must admit I was darned curious as to whether the thing would run so I couldn’t resist at least having a go. Sorry Jesse – I had a play with it before I saw your thoughts on whether to continue or not. Unfortunately I had already returned my good battery to the Scout Car as I needed to get that vehicle ready for transport to a show on Monday. Anyway, I topped up the oil in the pan. I guess it would have taken at least a 1- 1 1/2 litres of oil to get the dipstick to the full mark. It was at the right level when I first started playing with this engine. Patrick - I didn’t have the time to check the carburettor so I thought I would try it as it was. I used the Tipton thumb TDC method again to find TDC and this time put the plug leads in the right firing order: 1-5-3-6-2-4! Cranking the engine didn’t do too much until I fully advanced the distributor and then the engine started to fire. I guess I didn’t quite have the TDC right. I found I couldn’t get the engine to keep running though on more than a couple of cylinders without holding on the starter switch. The battery I was using was the same one I used at the start. It just wasn’t as good in terms of cranking power and the speed that the engine was running as the battery out of the scout car and I felt this didn't help. The flooding I had previously seen at the carburettor wasn’t immediately obvious but I could see that cylinder 4 was flooding. In the end, I decided to stop at that point. As I say, there are enough other issues with the engine that it has to come out so I figure I will make sure I have it running properly before it goes back in the vehicle. Besides, that noise at the front where the fan blade was rubbing on the fan shroud was bugging the hell out of me as well and I want to get that and other problems sorted. Thanks all for the assistance to date. I am on the search for a full gasket set and the seals for the pan and I will let you know as soon as I have the engine out and have assessed its condition. Thanks Darryl

Hi Patrick Thanks for the words of encouragement. A few hours of my life mucking around that I won't get back, which is frustrating! I still can't recall where I saw that firing order but I do recall noting it down and then checking the order the previous owner had the plug leads labelled and thought the order was correct. A game changer, as they say. Yes, I couldn't think where bronze would be used where it would end up in the oil. I don't think that it could be coming from anywhere in the hull as I vacuumed the hull out once I got access to everything. I have the oil catching tray sitting under the bell housing 'lip' where it meets the face of the back of the block, so it should be catching oil directly under the connection between the bell housing and block. That's where I can feel oil seeping out. It looks like engine oil to me, rather than transmission oil but in saying that, I can see that there is oil on the teeth of the flywheel so clearly that is sitting in oil as well. I'm assuming it is coming from the block at this stage and it is a bit hard to say at the moment. I'll have another play with the engine later today and let you know how I get on.

Hi again Jesse. Crikey, you are right. It should be 1-5-3-6-2-4. What an amateur mistake..... That changes things completely. Okay, what are your thoughts on continuing to try to start this thing? I'm a bit concerned that there is other stuff going on in the engine with all that debris in the oil. However, I guess if I were able to get it to run, that might help pinpoint any problem areas. I would need to top the oil up for starters. Your thoughts?

Hi Jesse. I had recorded it as 1-4-2-6-3-5 but I can't recall now where I got that now. I had better go back and check the manual. What are your thoughts on the brass/bronze in the oil? I'm guessing it is from a bronze bush somewhere. Any thoughts on where?

Hi all, Thanks for all the responses. I had another play around with the Weasel today. Just to be sure of things I checked the spark on all cylinders and I have a good healthy spark on all 6 plugs. Using Patrick’s method I found what I believed to be TDC (or thereabouts) on cylinder 1. I couldn’t find a mark anywhere on the flywheel to show that I was at TDC. I figured I'd run with that anyway and set up the plug firing order accordingly with cylinder 1 firing at that point. I tried starting the engine again but had no success. I wasn't convinced I had TDC right first time so I went through the exercise again. The rotor was in the same location so I figured it must be right but after trying again the engine didn’t give me any hints it would start despite me rotating the distributor. I thought I would keep trying to find the timing marks on the flywheel. No matter how I spun the engine though, I couldn’t find anything. Then as a bit of a fluke I saw something on the flywheel which looked like an old paint line. As you know the flywheel lines are really hard to see when the engine is in the hull but I could make out a stamped line on the flywheel with an old paint line over it. There were no numbers stamped around it though. Is there a 180 degree line stamped on the flywheel? Anyway, I ran with that line hoping that it was the TDC mark and set up the plug order accordingly. I had no luck though and still only got spluttering and coughing and some smoke. In the end, I decided to just experiment with the plug order relevant to cylinder 1, figuring that eventually I would find the plug order that the engine would want to run at. My plug leads had been labelled 1-2-3-4-5-6 by the previous owner. The way I had set it up using Patrick's 'TDC thumb method' had the labelled plug leads positioned in the correct firing order on the cylinders as 6-3-5-1-4-2. That is, the lead labelled 6 was on cylinder 1. The lead labelled 3 was on cylinder 4, the lead labelled 5 was on cylinder 2, and so on. Hope this makes sense to you. I moved the labelled plugs leads around with respect to cylinder 1, starting with 4-2-6-3-5-1, then 2-6-3-5-1-4, etc, etc, with no success. Interestingly, when the firing order was wrong the engine showed that really laboured effect that I had the very first time I tried to start the engine so I think the timing was wrong in the first place. I eventually got to 5-1-4-2-6-3. That is, the lead labelled 5 was running on cylinder 1, the lead labelled 1 was on cylinder 4, etc, etc. Essentially I was moving the leads along one cylinder at a time. Anyway, this was the best setup and I immediately got a different sound to the engine when it was spun. I guess this is one way to time the engine. I nearly had the engine running with this plug order and moving the distributor slightly as I spun the engine gave a noticeable change in the way the engine wanted to fire up so I knew I was onto the right order. I reckon for a few seconds I had it almost running on two cylinders. I couldn’t keep it going though. I noticed the carburettor was flooding as were the cylinders (fuel wanting to come upwards out of the spark plug holes). Fuel was seeping out of different areas on the carburettor. I wonder about that electric fuel pump and whether it is delivering fuel at a higher rate than what this engine needs. I’m not sure whether the flooding would sort itself out with the engine running properly or not. In the meantime though, I noticed that the oil leak had got worse. There was now at least a litre (2 x pints?) of oil in the plastic container I had put in the bottom of the hull from the leak in the oil pan. Aside from the leak, there was debris in the oil that is concerning. I see there is silicon, fragments of brass, and metallic pieces including what could be a stripped thread? Where would brass be in this block? Anyway, based on what I was seeing I decided to call it quits at that stage and not go any further with trying to start it. My next step is to pull the motor out. I am not sure when I can get do that as I am getting two vehicles ready for a big display here at the end of the month. I also have an M20 to finish so it could be some time. It may be that I just get the engine out when I get a few spare hours and put it on a stand and get onto it when I get spare time. As an aside I’m fairly certain the noise at the front is the fan blades hitting the very top inside of the fan shroud. Thanks all for the assistance and I’ll keep you posted as I get time to work on the engine.

Hi Patrick. Awesome. Thanks. I had thought of that as well but wondered if there was a more technical option. I'll give that a try. Thanks Darryl

Hi all, Thanks Patrick for the photos and instructions on the removal of the distributor drive and housing. I removed the housing yesterday. The debris that was inside the housing included cork and lots of pieces of silicon. Clearly the previous owner had shares in a silicon product company as there was a proliferation of silicon on all the surfaces, including under the distributor mounting plate. Ultimately, the silicon was part of the problem in why the distributor wouldn’t move. Even once I got the distributor drive out of the block I couldn’t get the distributor out of the shaft in the housing. I tried some heat on the housing but that didn’t free it either. In the end, I had to prise open the distributor mounting plate and gradually work my way around the shaft picking out all the silicon that had worked its way down between the shaft and the cork gasket. I eventually picked out enough of the silicon and what was left of the cork gasket and the distributor came free. While I don’t think the silicon was the only cause, it certainly provided an oil proof seal from the top and no amount of penetrating oil was going to be able to work down into the area between the cork gasket and housing and the distributor shaft. I'd say this engine has been sitting a bit as well and the distributor and the cork/silicon had 'become one'. Anyway, I cleaned everything up, painted the housing, reassembled it and fitted with new gaskets and Loctite flange sealant. I also took the time to mount the coil properly on the block. OZ – I couldn’t find any of those square profile seals that you sent photos of here. No doubt they might be available in some of the bigger centres here but locally they weren't available. I have used O rings for the moment and will see how they work out for the bit of testing I have left to do on the engine. I am still curious to see if I can get this thing to run before I pull the engine out. Does anyone have any tips for finding TDC on cylinder 1 with the engine in the vehicle? I was going to try something I saw on another forum which involves a small wire probe with a bent piece (leg) on the end. The suggestion was that it could be mounted with a little wire guide so that the leg sat on the top of the piston and you could see the wire going up and down as the engine was spun. The location of the generator and the water pump elbow makes that tricky though. I can see there is some white paint on the flywheel but it is more of a 'spray' of white paint rather than a line, so don't know if the stamped mark on the flywheel is about to come into view or has already gone out of view. I haven't yet been able to spin the engine in a way that I can find the line on the flywheel. I guess I could drop the starter motor again and rotate by hand but I still need to ensure cylinder 1 is at TDC. Any tips? Thanks Darryl

Hi Jesse, Yes, that's what I would have expected to. I just wondered if it might have been easier to get that housing off the block and then try and get the distributor out. I've tried giving the bottom of the distributor body a few light taps but it seems to be stuck fast in the housing. I've put a screwdriver under the mounting plate to see if I can lift the distributor up that way but that just bends the plate. At this stage, I've put some penetrant under that plate hoping that it might get into the housing and free up the distrutor shaft. I had wondered if there was more rubbish inside the housing which might be binding the pinion on the bottom of the distributor shaft in some way but I don't see how that is possible. What I might try tomorrow is warming up the housing attached to the block while using an oil filter removal tool around the distributor body and see if that gives me some leverage on it to get it to free up. I don't see how the timing could have been set up in the first place if the distributor won't move.

Hi Jesse Sounds like some horror stories there. Yes, this one is proving to be a bit of an eye opener.

Hi Patrick Sounds a bit like the setup on the oil pan of the Hercules JXD in the White Scout car. My engine is rebuilt and I was never confident about that seal arrangement. Sure enough...it seeps oil. Anyway, more surprises for me today with the Weasel and I guess this won't be helping with why the distributor won't move. There is a pile of junk/debris in amongst the moving parts. As far as removal goes, everything is stuck in there at present. I will get the manual out again shortly but I'm guessing that screw on the little distributor drive pinion shaft on the block is a normal right hand thread? It looks like one that I'll need to put an impact driver on it, but I don't want to be turning in the wrong direction. From what I can see I might have to get this pinion off and then remove the whole assembly from the block so I can get the distributor shaft out. A late edit/update..... I've managed to clean a lot of the debris out and it doesn't look as bad as I first thought. I'm not sure what the debris is as there doesn't seem to be too much metal in amongst it. The debris might even include bits of a cork gasket- just not sure yet. Anyway, everything is still stuck so I'll need to somehow get the distributor off and clean it all out.

Thanks OZM29. I see that battery has a better CCA than the one I was initially using. I'll keep that in mind, thanks. I do need to get back to Corowa. I went in 2010, 2013, and 2016 so am well overdue but unfortunately it won't be this year. I'll keep in touch though. Thanks Darryl

Hi all, I spent a few more hours today working on the Weasel and thought I’d provide a quick update. I’ve found working on a Weasel is quite different to the M8 and M20 I’ve been working on lately, and I am working out fast how little room there is when you are dealing with an engine problem! There were more surprises when I got in the back of the tub. The first thing I noticed was the pool of oil under the bell housing. The oil is clean engine oil and it appears to be coming from between the back of the block and the bell housing. It is a significant leak and while it is always hard to guesstimate how much is there, I’d suggest it would be half a cup of oil. It has only been a few days since I was working on it so not a good sign. I am as yet unfamiliar with these engines but from what I saw in the manual the cause appears likely to be the gasket/seal on the back of the oil pan. I guess it was either not replaced, installed incorrectly, or has failed. Would the resident experts agree? The likelihood that the engine has to come out just went up and I’m really wondering about this ‘full rebuild’ thing ….. Anyway, I tried to put that aside for a minute while I had another look at the engine. I firstly checked the plug leads themselves. The plug order itself was correct so I thought I’d get the distributor set up to be able to adjust it. I noticed the locking screw and nut that hold the distributor shaft against the mounting plate was loose and covered in a bit of rust. Another ominous sign I thought. To cut a long story short, I found that the distributor appears to be frozen in its shaft in the block and I couldn’t get any movement in it. I removed the small bolt on the mounting base plate that secures the distributor to the block. With the bolt out, that plate rotates around the distributor body so I’m not sure yet whether the problem is within the distributor itself or how it is sitting in the block. Either way, I can’t rotate the distributor either clockwise or anti-clockwise. Cranking the engine a bit made no difference and I haven’t been able to pull the distributor out yet. In the meantime, I thought I would give the engine another try, this time using a bit of starter fluid as Jesse suggested. Unfortunately there was no improvement and all I got was a few splutters and some popping in the exhaust and the engine wouldn’t fire up. Access to the distributor area is not great so I decided to remove the dash panel and the large panel that sits between the driver and the engine. This would at least give me better access to the engine itself. Frustratingly there were again a combination of imperial and metric bolts used to hold this plate in place. I will have another play around with the distributor tomorrow but regardless, the engine is going to have to come out. Aside from the leak from the oil pan, there are other problems. Some of the wiring is a bit rough and needs tidying up. There has also been a coolant leak and I note that there is oil on the temperature gauge sensor bulb, so that’s something else that will need investigating. I’ll keep you posted! Thanks Darryl

Hi Patrick Thanks for the detailed reply. I didn’t word things properly in my post. I only crank for about 5 seconds or so at a time. My first post mentioned 1-2 minutes, but that was total time trying things. Yes, I understand that about the engine assembly. I can only assume that the previous owner didn’t run the engine up on a stand before fitting it to the Weasel to get everything working right in the first place. I wonder if the demise of the original starter was due to the problems in getting the engine running and maybe them sitting on the starter button. The starter switch on the dash needed replacing as well. I don’t see how they would have even been able to test the engine with that starter motor. And yes, to answer your previous comment, the freight cost to get a NOS starter motor to New Zealand was not cheap! Thanks for the tips on adjusting the timing while in situ. I can see that might be a bit of a challenge. Thanks Darryl

Hi Fred Thanks for the reply. I must have been reading your mind as I covered a few of your suggestions in what I did yesterday. As you suggest, the timing and firing order is next up. I still need to check that noise at the front. Thanks Darryl

Hi Darth Kitten Thanks for the reply. As per my post above.

Hi all, Thanks for the replies. I spent a bit of time on the Weasel yesterday and actually covered some ground that some have suggested so it is probably easier to do a summary and then reply to individual comments after that. The first thing I did yesterday was to clean up the various earth straps on the Weasel. There were a lot of individual wires going to individual tags on the hull. I've joined all these smaller wires at one point with a good earth connection onto the hull. I also cleaned up the main earth wire from the battery to the hull. This was looking a bit ugly and is a lot cleaner now. I removed the spark plugs again and squirted a bit more fine oil down into the compression chamber just in case valves were sticking. The valves look nice and clean but some of the metalwork around the guides looks a little rough which makes me wonder about the extent of the rebuild. I used the same battery as the day before which was again fully charged. This battery has about 560 CCA so I thought that would be enough. The initial cranking was better than the day before and the engine did turn over faster. I think cleaning up that main earth point helped. Spark on all plugs appears good. All valves that I can see are moving. Not sure without looking at the manual whether these are the intake or exhaust but all are moving. I put the spark plugs back in and connected the fuel hose from the filter to a small can of fuel. The Weasel has an electric fuel pump and I fitted a new switch for that to the dash. The original fuel pump is on the block but is not connected. Interestingly, from what I can see, that original pump appears to be in good condition so I’m not sure why this was not connected. I tried turning the engine over again. While the engine did turn over faster than yesterday it did seem to get to a point in its revolutions where it laboured a bit and then turned faster again. The engine didn't appear to fire at all and I wasn't happy with the speed it was turning over so I grabbed the battery out of my White Scout Car. This has 900 cranking amps so it is a good chunky battery. This battery turned the engine over much quicker and I feel I will need to fit a decent sized battery into the Weasel. Out of interest, what sort of CCA do you guys look for in a Weasel battery? I checked the fuel supply and there is fuel getting to the carburettor. As I say, this battery was much better and this time I started getting pops and splutters in the exhaust, as well as a bit of white smoke, no doubt from that oil I put in the spark plug holes. I think maybe one or two cylinders were firing at that stage. Again though, the engine does get to a point when it is turning that it slows a bit and then spins faster again. I have tried videoing that but it was a bit hard to hold the switch down and the camera while also holding the throttle lever. I’ll see if I can upload that video. I ran out of time at that point so I called it quits and put the batteries on charge. I'm much more encouraged by what I've seen though and I think this engine will run. I’ve had no other issues with the starter solenoid chattering so I’m thinking tidying up those earths did help. As Fred and Patrick have said, I am going to check the timing now and also the spark plug leads to ensure they are numbered correctly. Thanks for all the advice to date and I’ll let you know how I get on. Cheers Darryl

Hi all, I wrote recently about my search for a new cranking motor for the Weasel I have here. A NOS one arrived here yesterday so I pulled it apart, checked it all out and bench tested it. I put the cranking motor into the Weasel and gave it a few turns with the spark plugs out. Initially, the engine appeared to turn over okay, although my impression was that there wasn’t a lot of clearance between the fan blades and the fan shroud. It was not binding but there appeared to be a little more mechanical noise from the front like the edge of a fan blade rubbing every now and again on the shroud. I decided to do a compression test for starters on the cylinders and just see what that showed. Cylinder 6 showed only 60 pounds which I thought was odd. When I went to check Cylinder 5, the cranking motor didn’t turn and the solenoid kept going back and forth. I removed the cranking motor, checked the Bendix etc and all appeared fine. I put a short lever in through the rear inspection hole in the bell housing just to see if I could turn the flywheel by hand. It moved easily and appeared free enough. I put the cranking motor back in and turned the engine over again. Cylinder 5 showed even less compression than 6. This is a new cylinder compression tester that I have and I started to wonder if it was working properly. I then noticed that the engine seemed to struggle to turn over then, almost as if the battery was getting low on power. The battery was fully charged beforehand though and we are only talking 1-2 minutes of cranking the engine. As background, when I bought this Weasel, I was told that the engine had had a full rebuild but that the owner had not been able to get it to run. I checked back with my contact who got the Weasel for me and he confirmed that he was told that the engine had undergone a full rebuild but that it appeared too tight and didn’t turn over well. It looks like I am experiencing the same problems he had. My plan today is to try another engine compression tester and see if that gives me any different results. I’m also going to put a voltmeter on the battery while cranking it to confirm it’s not an electrical problem. I don’t see anything in the manual about a way to prime the oil pump. Is there anything else I can do with internal lubrication? It has plenty of clean oil in it. I would have thought that any reputable engine reconditioner would have checked the engine for excessive tightness at all stages of the rebuild. So… I also would have thought the previous owner would have fired this engine up (or attempted to) on a stand before fitting it into the Weasel. I guess one can’t be sure on either point though….. I’m pretty sure I know the answer to this question, but is there anything about ‘the setup’ of the Weasel engine that would make it excessively tight? I’m not talking about the engine rebuild itself, more anything else after the engine was assembled. As I say, I’m working (hoping) on the basis that the engine rebuilder knew what they were doing but something else might have been done to the engine after the rebuild. Otherwise, it looks like my next step will be to pull the engine out and open it up and see what is going on inside. Thanks Darryl

Thanks Patrick. It looks like I have acquired a NOS one and should have confirmation on that shortly. I also had a couple of offers of used ones and I may grab one of those as well as a spare. Thanks for thinking of me. Appreciate it.

Hi Patrick Thanks for that. I tried Dave but he has nothing at present. I will have to keep searching! Cheers Darryl

Hi all, I'm on the lookout for a Weasel cranking motor. Does anyone have anything available? I'd consider used dependent on condition. My one has a bad armature. Thanks Darryl

Hi Patrick, Many thanks for the detailed reply. Can you confirm please where the screw holes for the data tag are? Are they on the right side of that bulkhead? The Ordnance number on the data tag says ‘14175’. If the data tag is original, would that suggest it is more likely a 1945 build? I’m suspicious about the data tag. It looks too good to be 80 years old. If the data tag is not original, I wonder where the previous owner got that number from? As you say, the USA number on the hull is not correct so am not sure how the Ordnance number can appear to be possibly accurate, but the USA number is as you say, a complete fiction. Cheers Darryl

Hello all from New Zealand, I’ve recently acquired a Weasel and with your assistance, I’d like to learn a little more about it. The vehicle has had some sort of restoration, but apparently the previous owner could not get the engine to run afterwards. I intend tidying up a few things on the hull and getting it to run. From what I can see, the vehicle has a repro data plate behind the driver’s seat. The hull tag is missing but there is a stamped number on there just left of the centre of the bulkhead behind the driver's seat. Is this related to the hull number or just a drawing number of some sort on the plate? I’m not sure where the US number painted on the side of the hull came from, nor the Ord Serial Number on the dataplate. I've attached a few photos of the vehicle. What other features about the vehicle could shed some light on it’s year of manufacture/model/history etc? Thanks Darryl Lennane