Patrick Tipton Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 The correct adjustment of the Weasel's steering system seems to be a bit of a mystery. I have driven Weasels with fingertip steering and then you see so many machines with broken or reinforced steering levers because it takes so much pressure to make them turn. The big question is why. The steering system is pretty Rube Goldberg and most of the levers/cross shafts etc. are running steel against steel with no bushings and probably very little lubrication. The early steering levers had no means of lubrication - so they received whatever (probably a light coat of oil given their intended use) and that was that. The final drive is a pretty simple "wet clutch" style differential with brake bands to drive more power to one track or the other - interestingly made by Clark Equipment - who also made the airborne dozer. There are only three adjustments - the large "wing" nuts that allow the operator to tighten the bands and then two set screws on each band that are used to help place the brake band in the correct position around the brake drum. I have been playing around with my M29 and the steering a lot. I have read and reread the manuals and followed the instructions closely to some success. My M29 will turn to the right with very little pressure. It does not like turning to the left. I am developing my theories, but the goal of this this thread to to collect best practices and write an article that will be pinned so we can guarantee fingertip control of our machines. Please share your experience. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aktrapperbrad Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 My T24 is one of those that takes both arms to pull to turn.☹️ It does track straight though. I just got it out of hibernation and out of the 4ft of snow it was parked in, so hope to play with adjusting the steering before I run it more. I am hoping that I just need to tighten the bands. The levers seem to move fine it's just mushy at the rear and takes a lot of pressure to get the brake to engage. Brad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZM29C Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 18 hours ago, Patrick Tipton said: The correct adjustment of the Weasel's steering system seems to be a bit of a mystery. I have driven Weasels with fingertip steering and then you see so many machines with broken or reinforced steering levers because it takes so much pressure to make them turn. The big question is why. The steering system is pretty Rube Goldberg and most of the levers/cross shafts etc. are running steel against steel with no bushings and probably very little lubrication. The early steering levers had no means of lubrication - so they received whatever (probably a light coat of oil given their intended use) and that was that. The final drive is a pretty simple "wet clutch" style differential with brake bands to drive more power to one track or the other - interestingly made by Clark Equipment - who also made the airborne dozer. There are only three adjustments - the large "wing" nuts that allow the operator to tighten the bands and then two set screws on each band that are used to help place the brake band in the correct position around the brake drum. I have been playing around with my M29 and the steering a lot. I have read and reread the manuals and followed the instructions closely to some success. My M29 will turn to the right with very little pressure. It does not like turning to the left. I am developing my theories, but the goal of this this thread to to collect best practices and write an article that will be pinned so we can guarantee fingertip control of our machines. Please share your experience. @Patrick TiptonFurther to your learned comments I’d like to add some more thoughts on this subject. I think it’s paramount that the correct grade of oil is used in the final drive. In my case I use this particular oil. https://classicoilsshop.co.uk/castrol-classic-xl30 My final drive steers well and that’s with the flotation gear fitted. Another consideration is the condition of the brake bands and their associated brake drums. I would consider it mandatory to do a full internal inspection of the final drive before putting it into use. A lot can happen in 75 years. The final drive has to be in optimum condition to ensure accurate adjustment of the said assemblies. Another observation to consider is the type of surface that a weasel is being asked to steer/turn on. Mown grass is very difficult to turn on, a weasel will labour considerably when turning on grass however loose gravel, sealed roads or sand (can’t offer any advice on snow though) offers very responsive steering. Correct Track tension is important as are the steering linkage adjustments. Last but not least driving/ steering technique is important. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Tipton Posted March 15, 2023 Author Share Posted March 15, 2023 Thanks @OZM29C. I had mine out yesterday in the snow. I still don't have it right, but the steering is improving. I was getting nice skidding turns although the pressures are still too high. I am going to do more experimenting this weekend and will report back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pips_Blaauw Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 During the first times of driving our Weasel i did not take the time to lubricate the various steering linkages. When i got acces to everything i took the time to lubricate them using simple SAE 30 motor oil as stated in the manual. Waiting for the oil to penetrate the entire joint is key. This made a very big difference to the feel of the sticks, it did not do a whole lot to the steering though. Still, a good idea to keep these parts wel lubricated. According to the manual this needs to be done every 250 miles... A few points that i noticed until now: While reversing and turning at the same time, the steering performance was greatly reduced. Shifting down before a turn, (thus having torque available during turning) seems to be very important for our Weasel. (Which is why i only have experience with driving in low range.) Steering is very dependant on road surface. Will report back once we get the chance to tune the differential! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Browning Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 Keeping all the steering linkage well oiled makes a huge difference in the amount of effort required to steer. The type of driving surface makes a huge difference also. The machine was designed to drive on the top of snow where it comes alive like a graceful wild animal. Hard surfaces and grass not so good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aktrapperbrad Posted April 4, 2023 Share Posted April 4, 2023 I was able to take my T24 out the other day and do some testing and tweaking. As Pips and Jesse stated "Keeping the linkage well oiled" defiantly makes a difference on the effort to pull the levers. I used spray chain lubrication on mine and it greatly reduced the effort required to pull the levers back. The Drivers-side track still didn't want to break well, so I tightened the wing nut 1/4 turn, and this improved the response, but it still needs more. (Note: this causes the lever to move forward so after this adjustment is finished the pushrod length needs to be redone if there is a noticeable difference.) I didn't get a chance to see if adjusting the Set screw would also help improve the breaking. I did my testing on 2-3 inch of fresh snow over 4 inch hard pack on a gravel Drive and it preformed surprisingly well, considering it still needs work. I did notice in the really deep powder snow(3-4 ft.) it doesn't do the best at turning. It is always in a nose high position, creating quite a bit of side pressure from the snow, from midway to back. If I needed to make a really sharp turn, it was easier to turn in reverse, since the snow was already broken and somewhat compacted. I hope these observations help, and once I get my carb and fuel consumption worked out some (5 gal. in less then a mile🤢), I will do some more testing. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pips_Blaauw Posted April 4, 2023 Share Posted April 4, 2023 2 hours ago, aktrapperbrad said: I was able to take my T24 out the other day and do some testing and tweaking. As Pips and Jesse stated "Keeping the linkage well oiled" defiantly makes a difference on the effort to pull the levers. I used spray chain lubrication on mine and it greatly reduced the effort required to pull the levers back. The Drivers-side track still didn't want to break well, so I tightened the wing nut 1/4 turn, and this improved the response, but it still needs more. (Note: this causes the lever to move forward so after this adjustment is finished the pushrod length needs to be redone if there is a noticeable difference.) I didn't get a chance to see if adjusting the Set screw would also help improve the breaking. I did my testing on 2-3 inch of fresh snow over 4 inch hard pack on a gravel Drive and it preformed surprisingly well, considering it still needs work. I did notice in the really deep powder snow(3-4 ft.) it doesn't do the best at turning. It is always in a nose high position, creating quite a bit of side pressure from the snow, from midway to back. If I needed to make a really sharp turn, it was easier to turn in reverse, since the snow was already broken and somewhat compacted. I hope these observations help, and once I get my carb and fuel consumption worked out some (5 gal. in less then a mile🤢), I will do some more testing. Brad 5 gallons a mile... Damn... Over here thats around 41 euro's (45 USD) to drive a mile... Something must be leaking I hope! But, nice to have the oiling confirmed! Based on your adjustment of the wingnuts, the linkages must indeed have changed position somewhat... Making sure the linkages are adjusted to have an exact 90 degree angle to eachother must also help a lot. Since you can then create the most momentum to actuate the brakes in the diff... Will also test that once i get the chance... PS; I found that giving enough gas while turning helps, thus having torque available in a turn (as i have said before). If the carb is badly adjusted, or just plain not able to deliver enough air+gas mix, you might not be able to apply enough power to steer, even on snow... Just a thought... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Tipton Posted April 5, 2023 Author Share Posted April 5, 2023 All good info. One thing with the wing nuts....there is a sweat spot. Too tight isn't good and too loose isn't either. I keep adjusting 1/2 turn increments and mine is improving for sure. Not quite finger tip but it is pretty responsive now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aktrapperbrad Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 Since posting in Apr. I have come up with more info and conclusions about steering. In May I ended up breaking a rear axle, so had to disassemble the final drive, allowing me to change the oil and inspect the braking system. The Brake bands were fine, but the drums had lots of groves. Luckly, I had a set of NOE drums in the parts that came with the T24. After getting everything back together, minor adjustments and test run, it now steers a lot better🙂. It now turns on a dime to the right with hardly any pressure, even in the brush, but still takes more effort to turn to the left. After further investigation I believe I have figured out why. Where the main cross-shaft(one behind the driver's seat) goes into the side of the hull, the hole is slightly worn forward, allowing the shaft to move. Because of the geometry and physics involved with the location of the rear pushrods, this requires more travel and effort on the left side lever. @Patrick TiptonIf you are still having a noticeable difference, you might check if you have the same problem. I hope these observations help out. Thanks, Brad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Tipton Posted July 27, 2023 Author Share Posted July 27, 2023 Good stuff Brad. Mine is working pretty well, but still not where I want it.....there is definitely some slop in the cross shaft and some grooving in the bands....probably a little of both contributing. Appreciate it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZM29C Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 @aktrapperbradOne small but very important point to consider when servicing the final drive is to use the correct oil as specified in the TM. In my case I used a Castrol product, see attachment. The key point out of the brochure is 'Monograde Low Detergent' API SB oil. I think I put about 7 litres into the final drive. On a side note, I installed a removable plate on the underside of the hull to facilitate an easier method of draining the final drive oil. Gary Setcy's Final drive article is well worth reading. I have attached it below for you. CAstrol Classic XL 30 Oil.pdf Drive Removal.pdf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Tipton Posted July 28, 2023 Author Share Posted July 28, 2023 You are a good man John @OZM29C. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and supporting this community! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZM29C Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 On 7/28/2023 at 10:50 PM, Patrick Tipton said: You are a good man John @OZM29C. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and supporting this community! No worries @Patrick Tipton Patrick. I removed myself from the FB weasel forums as I received some undeserved criticism when responding to a post there so this forum is my only outlet nowadays to share weasel restoration knowledge. Any updates on the T24 restoration although I know that you have been busy on a myriad of other projects. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Tipton Posted July 30, 2023 Author Share Posted July 30, 2023 Thanks John. Facebook is a strange world. As soon as I wrap up this jeep project (very close to painting the tub), I am going to rebuild the T24 engine and install it. From there, I still have so many details to finish, but there will be light at the end of the tunnel for sure. Cheers! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZM29C Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 (edited) @aktrapperbrad Another thing that comes to mind when re assembling the final drive is to pay very particular attention to 'Timing' the Brake band actuating shaft to the brake band cam. Don't assume that the timing was correct when you dismantled the final drive. There is a full explanation on how to carry out this task in the TM. @Patrick Tipton Contact Patrick if you don't have the TM as he can (as in my case) supply an excellent reproduction of the relevant TM. Cheers. Edited August 2, 2023 by OZM29C Spelling 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Tipton Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 Back on the T24 restoration. Rebuilding the final drive and installing was my latest project. My brake drums were pretty ugly and wanted to see if they were salvageable. I don't have a metal lathe large enough to turn them, but was able to do it with my wood lathe. I ended up making a wooden interference fit collet and tapping the drums on. As there is a bronze bushing in the drum, I didn't want to damage the bushing so this seemed a fairly safe way to do it. With the drum chucked and running reasonable true, I took an angle grinder with a 60 grit sanding disc and sanded off the grooves. I then went through a few more grits up to about 120 grit and polished them up. I think they will work just great now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronny68 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Good job P! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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